Depends. If you are a PhD then yes it is worse than they say. Does losing your home, car repos, pulling your kids out of college, and public assistance sound good to you?

Is the job market in the Bay Area really as bad as they say, I was talking with someone the other day and they said they got hundreds and hundreds of resumes for a job they posted.

I would highly recommend going for to further your education. It is the best job security and future career security you can offer yourself.Check out http://www.degreesinhealthcare.org to learn about furthering your career with a degree in healthcare.

I have a PhD and make 80K more than my co-workers with just an MS. The most important part of your chosen subject is it's application in industry and you're ability to 'create wealth'. If you ensure your research subject/skills have a direct return for your employer you will always find work and always be paid well.

On the otherhand. If you did your research 15 years ago and rested on your title and made yourself comfortable at one company you're never getting another job.

Choose your future and work hard during your career to stay current. This is your only insurance against unemployment.

Good luck.

if you are going into biotech, make sure you get commercial experience!!

"I am getting approximately 1.5 times the job offers they are getting."

In other words, you're a lab assistant and a part-time hamburger flipper.

I have a MS that I earned online and compared with my fellow PhD colleagues, I am getting approximately 1.5 times the job offers they are getting. Some of them are really struggling in this economic environment. http://blog.degreesinhealthcare.org

A PhD will doom you in this market (USA). Virtually all of my BS/MS colleagues who were laid off from biotech/pharma have found new and decent jobs. Most all of my PhD colleagues who were let go on the other hand are still out of work and competing for a few paltry positions in order to feed their families and stave off foreclosure. Top teir school or not. It doesn't matter in this market. The ratio of PhDs looking for work vs. available slots is beyond believable.

Stay out of biotech and pharma completely. Go for international business/MBS or law since those are the only guys that will be making any real money over the next 10+ years

"personal commitment it takes to get an education"

This is the case for very few, most just hang around in grad school till they are reluctantly "graduated". For the vast majority, graduate school is nothing more than a place to hide from life. Unless you are at a good school, with a good prof, then he'll just give you the boot if you don't perform.

The problem is that most people, don't even realize their "education" is worthless. They are often sociopaths that surround themselves with people who don't know any better and show them some kind of respect. They get off on their self perceived superiority. Working in science and being around these people all day will make you sick to your stomach.

The other issue is that schools need TA's, they need people doing token research in order to keep getting grants and stay alive. It's just like a business. Few understand this.

If you can't get into a top tier school, and lab, forget about it. Even the best right now are not likely to find work with their advanced degrees in science. Tens of thousands have been let go, they will even flood the teaching market in every thing from public school to community college to university.

As far as doing it "because you love it". If you aren't getting into a good lab, maybe you have to be honest with yourself. If you really love it that much, why aren't you doing better?

There's more to it than money.

You will be a lot more marketable when you pursue an advanced degree IF you have already backed it up with some industry experience. If not, you will be like a lot of those with advanced degrees who can't find gainful employment, and can't adapt to the corporate work style if they are hired at a biotech. Higher education tends to delude its students- - -often these folks are the first to go when layoffs come around since they don't produce.

Go for further education if the subject inspires you. PhDs are an excellent way of spending time working for your self interest, pursuing a subject that you choose and care about. Mine marked one of the best periods of my life. If you're any good you'll make a good living with or without a PhD.

You'll find a lot of education envie especially amongst management who are scared you'll point out their ignorance but you'll also get a lot of respect from people who know the personal commitment it takes to get an education and understand it's not a meal ticket but a life choice you make because it about more than money.

Enjoy.

They're just morons reciting tripe dictated to them from pharma reps anyway. My dad's doctor has a lab coat with the Lipitor logo on it, sheesh

That's exactly what we need, more doctors making less money. We need to turn medicine into a low cost commodity. Why the hell do you think no one can afford to go to the doctor!!?? Why you have to mortgage your house to get your damn appendix removed.... The price of getting a medical education will come down too when there is more competition (among schools) and the AMA's stranglehold on how many doctors are produced, is released.

It ain't rocket science

"Given the current health care crisis even an MD from Grenada will allow you to do well."

When Obamacare kicks in, MD's will be severely limited in the amount they will be allowed to make. Given they come out of med school hundreds of 1000's of dollars in debt and don't start to make real money until almost 40 years old, we'll be graduating much fewer doctors in the future. The 25 year old government bureaucrats who'll be making medical decisions for them will be much better paid, and much less educated.

Given the current health care crisis even an MD from Grenada will allow you to do well.

"just go for MD"

I bet most of us MS's and PhD's were premeds as undergrads who couldn't get into med school, like me.

"MS = I failed out of my PhD program"

Again guilty as charged. I graduated cum laude from a top notch institution and maintained a 4.0 GPA in grad school but was a terrible public speaker (even worse than Bush) so I was nudged out with the MS. I thought it was unfair at the time but I've come to realize that PhD's need to be able to give great presentations in front of large groups of people, so maybe they were right.

To be fair, there's a lot of unemployed everybody out there.

PhD from second or third rate labs or school = worthless
Unless of course you are an affirmative action hire

MS = I failed out of my PhD program

BS = a life of being treated like you're stupid by morons with "advanced" degrees. Unless you're a house wife from the pacific rim, and are willing to play kiss up to sociopaths in white coats. Why do you think most associate staff is just that.

The majority of people with PhD's and MS held cushy jobs in big pharma in the past as nothing more than placeholders in the game that is R+D. They will now find themselves unable to work at that kind of a job, and are stigmatized with regards to finding other work because the rest of society doesn't want them around, they just roll their eyes and say "hire a scientist"?

Good luck

Invitrogen bought out a company I used to work for. Is Invitrogen really that bad?

Disclosure: I am an organic chemist.

What do you want to do with your life? Do you just want a job, or do you want to teach or run a lab?

If you want to teach or run a lab (either in academia or industry), you need to get the PhD. However, the competition for these jobs (at least in my field) is fierce. In both top-20 schools and big pharma, the PhD-level jobs mostly go to people who went to elite schools and worked for very famous advisers. Also, the jobs for PhD's are more scarce - as one works their way higher up the ladder, there are less jobs. With a PhD, you are almost certainly going to have to move to where the jobs are.

If you just want a job - get an MS. You'll almost certainly never run a lab or teach, but, the pay is still decent and the work is less stressful. The jobs are more plentiful. I can tell you from experience, my friends who have MS degrees in big pharma had much, much easier times getting jobs initially and also when companies were acquired or layoffs occurred.

A good plan would be to work in industry for awhile as a BS. If you don't like your work/career path, go back for the PhD.

Disclosure: I am an organic chemist.

What do you want to do with your life? Do you just want a job, or do you want to teach or run a lab?

If you want to teach or run a lab (either in academia or industry), you need to get the PhD. However, the competition for these jobs (at least in my field) is fierce. In both top-20 schools and big pharma, the PhD-level jobs mostly go to people who went to elite schools and worked for very famous advisers. Also, the jobs for PhD's are more scarce - as one works their way higher up the ladder, there are less jobs. With a PhD, you are almost certainly going to have to move to where the jobs are.

If you just want a job - get an MS. You'll almost certainly never run a lab or teach, but, the pay is still decent and the work is less stressful. The jobs are more plentiful. I can tell you from experience, my friends who have MS degrees in big pharma had much, much easier times getting jobs initially and also when companies were acquired or layoffs occurred.

A good plan would be to work in industry for awhile as a BS. If you don't like your work/career path, go back for the PhD.

I've found my MS to be a benefit in applying to non-bench position jobs.

MS isn't worth anything - a year or two of experience will get you anything an MS will - and you get paid for experience instead of paying to get the MS.

Don't bother getting either. Just go apply at Life tech. (Invitrogen) and tell them you have a PhD. They won't bother checking, and even if someone tells them about it they won't do anything. The only problem is you have to go to Invitrogen everyday.

M.S. gives you more flexibility, I think. You will not get your name on papers as an author as often. If you need to be in charge, go PhD. If you just want employment, go M.S.

just go for MD