They can bribe the Chinese into buying it. Two fools can always make a deal.

Fascinating how the subject of RIA keeps coming up. One the one hand, there are a few people who appear to believe that RIA has a business future down the road; these are the people who keep talking about how it might get sold and that there might be a potential buyer. On the other hand, we have the Siemens folks who, after 5+ years have not realized that there is no tooth fairy and that no one in their right mind would buy their RIA business, even if they dramatically lowered their asking price. People and companies simply don't buy businesses that have zero chance to grow and expand. What is most amazing is that Siemens didn't pull the plug on it years ago. It is hard to imagine any sane business plan that would include continuation of RIA. If Siemens wants to show that 2012 is a year of positive change for DX, they should be notifying customers TODAY that RIA is closing down as soon as is legally possible. Can't management get even one simple little thing right? They can't even get rid of the deadest of all the wood they have, can they?

I think the RIA group still have a chance to survive at least in the cut starting next week, IF Siemens still has hope to sell this product line as one piece. For now Siemens has not yet notified customers that they'll close shop on RIA, which is a good sign.

RIA at one facility and Immulite raw materials at CrossPoint. Would not take longer than 3-6months to move any and all of Immulite raw materials to any Site on east coast or Llanberis. It's not brain surgery. Have Batch Record will travel.
The past year had a huge amount of failed reagents as well.

If Siemens DX is trying to cut cost then this is the place it should be done. A very expensive facility which, at one time, held over 800-900 people on rotating shifts now has less than 200.
What is that all about?
Just a very silly way to do business.

What is actually still made at LA?

"How do you "sink" such a massive company, especially when it doesn't seem you can even sell off the parts of it? What's the best case and worst case scenarios here?"
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DX is massive with fat. Best and worst case scenarios are they either sell off certain parts of DX or just end certain platforms and concentrate on ones that actually work.
Problem is they are all old. Yes, they still work but 20-30yr technology is not something labs (other than Third World Countries) want. Especially from a company which touts how advanced their product lines are.
For a company which is growing at less than 1% in an industry which has a 4-5%growth rate is a great way to sink a company.

'Do the pregnancy tests come out of former DPC?'

Nope, ex-Bayer and they used to work properly back in the day.

...non-existent Quality Control--Remember the hCG false positives on 15 lots!
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Do the pregnancy tests come out of former DPC?

And when you say DX is a sunken ship, what does that mean exactly? Memos from MR seem to suggest that all the former product lines will "sink" (does this mean end-of-lifed or EOL), and any R&D funds DX has will go towards more lucrative, possibly emerging markets (like home health care, which GE seems to be going after)? So will Advia, Immulite, etc. be EOLed and shutdown? Or will DX need to keep one going indefinitely?

How do you "sink" such a massive company, especially when it doesn't seem you can even sell off the parts of it? What's the best case and worst case scenarios here?

"Here's my puzzle: does DX let RIA folks go or not in this coming layoff. If they do so, then no more RIA business as a while to put on the market for sale. If not, you're telling me these folks would somehow survive the LA shutdown?

And what about the support function for the RIA like IT, Finance, HR, Shipping, etc... I know it's minimum, but the question remains, can they survive because of RIA?"
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RIA and CrossPoint serve two totally different functions.
If anything, CrossPoint has a much better chance of shutting down completely than RIA. RIA group is about 70 employees in one large building (includes, shipping, kit assembly, iodinations). Siemens doesn't have any other Facility manufacturing these kits.
Yes, profit margin is low and no ones bought the line since it's been on the market roughly 5 years.
CrossPoint is a multimillion dollar facilty which is more than half empty and "everything" being done there can be done at any east coast DX site. It's a financial sinkhole.
It's a total waste and if it isn't closed it will once again show how little Siemens knows about the industry.
Regardless, DX is already a sunken ship. The customers already lost will never come back. Old platforms, horrible customer service and non-existent Quality Control--Remember the hCG false positives on 15 lots!

Could you please send us a list of the 17 worldwide customers that are still using RIA? The only things that should keep it going at all would be country-specific regulations on the length of notice that manufacturers must give labs before killing a product (which gives the customer a chance to switch over). Many older systems have been withdrawn from the markets as their numbers fade and lead times tend to vary from 6 months to a year; RIA will be no different and if Siemens hasn't already started the process of notifications, something is extremely wrong. It must be pretty obvious to even the no-nothings in management that there is no buyer for an old, declining product line with absolutely zero potential for future growth. There is one and only way to stop the bleeding and that is to shut down vestigial parts of the business. I'm sure there are still a few old time DPC people who think RIA has value; the kind of people who lead to all those jokes about the hallucinogenic substances that are part of the Los Angeles public water system. In this case, it's time to stop feeding a dead horse !!

Here's my puzzle: does DX let RIA folks go or not in this coming layoff. If they do so, then no more RIA business as a while to put on the market for sale. If not, you're telling me these folks would somehow survive the LA shutdown?

And what about the support function for the RIA like IT, Finance, HR, Shipping, etc... I know it's minimum, but the question remains, can they survive because of RIA?

There have repeated suggestions that Siemens might sell off parts of DX. The only part so far has been the old DPC RIA business and as far as I know, Siemens has not found a buyer. So my question to the DX-pieces-for-sale crowd is: What parts do you think they would try to sell, what value do any of these parts really have, and who would be dumb enough to buy a part of current DX. Without details addressing the above, the suggestions of a sale are completely meaningless and without merit.

There is a huge difference between what people think Siemens should do theoretically and the practical world of business where little things like future potential, future profits, and the investment needed to ensure the future rule the decision making process. Bayer got completely fooled when they bought Technicon from Cooper (Tarrytown's version of Bain Capital) and Siemens got totally fooled when they bought Bayer and Dade. How many more completely naive companies do you think are out there that would be willing to pay Siemens a penny for any part of DX?

I just read the article in the WSJ.
Interesting that Diagnostics, in all of Siemens, was singled out as a major loss.
At least Loescher knows where the moneypit is.
I don't expect Reitermann to be around long term. Neither parts of DX also for that matter.

"FRANKFURT—German industrial giant Siemens AG indicated that its full-year earnings targets may be in danger as the fragility of the global economy chokes investment by its customers.

"Our guidance is very ambitious," its financial chief Joe Kaeser told Wall Street Journal Deutschland in an interview published Tuesday. "It certainly hasn't gotten easier to achieve our goals since we released them. The headwinds have become stronger."

Siemens, whose products span gas turbines, streetcars and pregnancy tests, has repeatedly stated it is facing a number of macroeconomic challenges including the European debt crisis, but Chief Executive Peter Loescher said two months ago ...
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This article came out today. It's another reason you'll be facing layoffs throughout 2012. Reitermann's DX has been the largest financial disappointment within Siemens.
Loescher already commented on Diagnostics (DX) is costing double of other companies and no return.
The 8% layoff this week is the beginning of several layoff schedules and site closures over the next twelve months.

Ouch. Someone is finally pulling the plug. I wonder if it will be a very top heavy org that is left and if so, how long before that caves! Get your stuff out or you may be force to leave it behind!

I'm expecting this to be one "crazy" week.
I've run into two kinds of individuals.
1)Denial that anything at all will happen
2)Getting ready to packup, finish resume and move one with their lives.
Meetings on East Coast this week with Site Heads as they finalize everything.
Loescher has interviews out this week where he publicly states how bad DX is and that it cannot sustain/continue at this level of ocst and financial loss.