You should post or respond on the
latest DEUCE thread XXIV.

9AM

what is the approx start time for the lay offs next year?

HELLO EVERYONE

Once again it's time to start a new thread and keep the information coming. Manufacturing is gone and now R&D is on the plate.
Please continue your postings at:
DPC-LA:2009-10 DEUCE XXIV
We have strength in numbers despite what the Senior Management tells us and they haven't been able to stop us yet from sharing the truth.

Maybe you guys should duke it out in the ring.

Re. DuPont vs. Dade sales, many DuPont reps and service engineers were retained. It would not have made sense to do otherwise. However, sales management at the top was Dade. Clarence C. stayed for a year or so for show, but RL, RD, DF, PC, KB and SA ran the show (not all at the same time; for example, RL left to head up MicroScan and PC left the company). PD, another Dade guy, ran service. Wrong again, ex DuPonter.

Just to confirm the previous post, you can look up Dade SEC filings on EDGAR. According to a S-1 filing there, Dade bought DuPont for $512mm in a deal that closed 5/96. Total DuPont DX sales in 1996 (8 months of which were under Dade management, so these were pro forma numbers) were $344.7mm. Remember, DuPont sales consisted of aca and Analyst as well as Dimension. As I recall, annual sales for Analyst were about $50mm, and the rest were split 50/50 between aca (going down) and Dimension (going up at the time of the deal). Dade had a policy of not breaking out product line sales in these SEC filings (they only had publicly traded bonds back then, no listed equity), so it is hard to be more precise. However, it is safe to say that there was no way that Dimension sales in 1995 (last full year of DuPont ownership) were $300mm -- the number was much closer to $150mm.

To the ex DuPonter, I think the previous poster would rather be a shill for Dade than an idiot who can't recall the facts.

Wrong again, ex DuPonter. Paramax sales were a bit over $100mm at the time of the acquisition by Dade Intl of DuPont's dx business. Dimension sales were about $150mm.

I've also heard that's the game plan for LA over the next year. Several departments will be re-organized as they are 1)top heavy with management (Method Development) and 2)need R&D and Manufacturing separation (Biochemistry). This process will also deal with a leaning out of R&D personnel. Not as many as feared might be cut (40+) since more than several are planning to leave on their own and will not be replaced. But it depends on which department you're in. It's also been "rumored" a "possible" new Site Head (all the way from 96th if he has his way) will be coming to CrossPoint who'll also takeover the manufacturing group. But at least three people are currently in the running for the position.
Yes, indeed, interesting and leaner times lie ahead.

Your comments about Paramax sales finally clarify exactly which of the businesses you come from (Dade) and your own bias, if not ignorance. The statement that "<100 million in sales" was not far behind Dimension clearly indicates your lack of contact with reality. At that time Dimension sales were well over 300 million. Additionally it was not Dade's service organization and structure that was maintained, it was DuPont's. Thanks for revealing yourself for the Dade legacy shill you are.

Roughly 40 more will be leaving LA in December as the final bunch of Manufacturing head on out. This batch will also include middle management and higher as they were either not offered new positions in LA or unwilling to relocate out of state.
With them leaving the count will be approximately 300 left in LA. Not even your remaining R&D Senior Management can dispute the numbers. It's also another reason no "Town Hall" meeting has happened since the heads of R&D met on east coast a month or two ago. Why? No good news to pass on.
On a brighter note we still "might" be getting a STIP payment and should have more details in a few days.
We heard the Chinese were interested in the RIA line but haven't heard if they passed on it yet. It's still on the market though for backup offers. Customers are still being told to switch over to a new line of instrumentation based assays as an RIA replacement. It's been over a year since they were told with a two year notice to avoid any lawsuits.
You can expect changes at CrossPoint to start in January. It's being suggested departmental re-organizations take place as R&D gets smaller. This and other changes will be taking place. Consider now through the years end as the calm before the storm.

Your Paramax comment underscores your ignorance. Paramax had enormous quality problems from the time it was launched. During most of its life, RD was a senior (but regional)sales exec at Baxter's SP unit, so Paramax was one of 000s of products his organization distributed. Paramax had its own specialty sales reps who, combined with SP personnel like RD, were largely responsible for achieving >$100mm per year in sales with a truly flawed product. By the time RD had national sales responsibility, the decision had already been taken to shut Paramax down in favor of Dimension. This was done very smoothly over a three-year period. Note that Paramax sales at the time Dade (formerly Baxter DX) acquired DuPont's DX business weren't far behind the vastly superior (from a technical/product quality perspective) Dimension revenues. This was because the Baxter sales and service organization was superior to the DuPont organization at the time. RD oversaw the combination of these two organizations and the very successful ramp-up of Dimension sales that ensued.

IF, and I mean IF, RD had any real talent maybe he could have done something with the Paramax. Didn't happen did it?

I have to agree with the comment on RD. He is nothing but hot air. SA doesn't even have that. They both are driving sales down at Siemens.

I have to agree with the comment on RD. He is nothing but hot air. SA doesn't even have that. They both are driving sales down at Siemens.

The only success RD has had in sales came from riding the coattails of the momentum established from purchased companies, nothing due to his skill. If anything he only contributed to the speed with which that momentum fell off. Very little customer focused action, just lots of words.

What you are reading isn't Dade arrogance. It is respect and admiration for SA and RD. Both have had long, successful careers in this industry
Siemens worked with Bayer DX personnel for a year before acquiring Dade, and yet ER still chose JRA over AB to run DX. This isn't arrogance ... it is a fact. In turn, JRA picked the people he thought would do the best job. This included some Bayer personnel, such as DH and MJ, but it definitely included RD and SA.

Your comments are revisionist history at its best. I was here before Siemens and I am here now and I see the difference and what has really happened. But lets keep it simple so SA can understand it. SA and RD are in charge of sales. Sales have been bad since they took over. Forget their history in the industry - what have they done lately. Our competitors are gaining share. SA has been incharge as we lose large customer contracts. That is not the economy. JRA did pick people - and many of the ex DPC and ex Bayer people were picked and resigned because they did not want to work for him and alongside RD and SA. Let's also keep in mind many of the Dade people see SA as a joke and continue to say so.

QUOTE
"I have nothing against DPCers. I like most of the ex DPCers I've met and greatly admire what the company accomplished. I think it is fair to say, however, that at least half of Deuce posts involve whining. Look at the thread heading -- kvetch equals whine, semanticallly speaking."
END QUOTE

YES, The company did accomplish a lot. Much more so than the past three years with Siemens. Sure there are some whiners here but the majority of posts are done by people who pass on information which they normally could not do at the company. Besides, a little kvetching is like chicken soup for the soul. Misery loves company.
The DEUCE thread was created to follow the demise of what "was" DPC-LA and "what" it had become. To date, that's a drop in roughly 70% of it's employee base. A sizeable chunck I think you'd agree.
In 2010 the remaining R&D branch is expected to finally get hit. By January the remaining employee base will be around 300. Once RIA is sold off or shutdown (believed to be next year) and 20% of RD is cut it will put the employee base closer to 200 by late next year. DPC'ers are on the endangered species list.
But we are hoping this number is a sustainable amount for Siemens to keep for another 3 years especially with leasing out close to half of the facility (positive cashflow). We also realize that LA is just a very expensive place to do business.
We also are interested in reading about the other sites in DX and what they are going through.
Isn't it ironic that after Siemens keeps announcing how well the "integration" has gone we still refer to ourselves as DPC, Bayer and Dade. Probably because the integration never took place, at least from the LA-DPC standpoint.
Many of us were not surprised by any of this over the past three years. We got stuck with a lame-duck Management, relatively no projects and a job freeze the past two years. You don't even have to read between the lines anymore.
But for now we're still here and so we wait for the next chapter to begin...or end.

What you are reading isn't Dade arrogance. It is respect and admiration for SA and RD. Both have had long, successful careers in this industry. If you still work at Siemens DX, it is safe to say that they have been more successful than you have, unless you are DH or MJ, which is unlikely.

I have nothing against DPCers. I like most of the ex DPCers I've met and greatly admire what the company accomplished. I think it is fair to say, however, that at least half of Deuce posts involve whining. Look at the thread heading -- kvetch equals whine, semanticallly speaking.

What is this obsession with Dade arrogance? "Dade" consisted of 4 separate companies, Baxter, Du Pont, Behring and Syva, so there is ample integration experience there. The people there were/are justifiably proud of what was accomplished in putting those 4 companies together, competing successfully and selling the business to Siemens. The disappointment with revenue growth over the past two years stems from the absurd price paid for the businesses. Anyone with M&A experience could have told Siemens that it would see a negative impact on sales due to integration. For example, a large portion of DPC sales came from distributors in Italy and Brazil. Those distributors were told they would be phased out after the acquisition, so they stopped selling. That hurts revenue growth. None of the other major competitors have had to deal with integration in the past 24 months. In fact, SG has publicly stated that Beckman would aggressively target Siemens business, knowing the disruptions inherent in an integration. To add to the competitive picture, Abbott has started to act competently again in the US, after years of struggling post the consent decree. All of this should have been taken into account in setting revenue targets for 08 and 09, but wasn't. More realistic revenue targets would have made it more obvious internally that Siemens overpaid for the three DX businesses, and that wasn't going to occur.

There isn't much SA and RD can do about these dynamics, other than what they are doing. Siemens worked with Bayer DX personnel for a year before acquiring Dade, and yet ER still chose JRA over AB to run DX. This isn't arrogance ... it is a fact. In turn, JRA picked the people he thought would do the best job. This included some Bayer personnel, such as DH and MJ, but it definitely included RD and SA. JRA had every incentive to pick the best people, not just Dade people, knowing he faced a difficult integration process. Ultimately, the revenue results are bound to disappoint, because Siemens Healthcare insisted on high targets to justify the high acquisition prices. Over the next few years, the pain of integration will pass and the people that remain will think of themselves more as Siemens employees, not ex Bayer, ex Dade or ex whatever. It is unfortunate that this hasn't happened sooner, but it will happen eventually.

....More garbage from ex Bayer people. Who is this? JN? JB? Your opinions about RD and SA are worthless. Sales are down because there's been a global recession. Are you going to blame them for that? Let the poor ex DPC LAers whine in peace ... your idiotic posts shouldn't disrupt their catharsis. JR-A didn't "stop halfway", he left. Simple as that.

Wow, I must have hit a nerve. Let's see, you call out ex Bayer people who have left over 2 years ago...and then you call out the DPC folks in LA. Spoken like a true egotistical Dade person. A little sensitive are we? I do think SA and RD are the problem. The global recession did not begin 2 years ago but SA and RD did and that is when sales started to fall off. You have had different excuses for two years. The problem is you have had no plan. Funny our competitors are growing sales and share and we are losing. I guess they are in a different economy. And yes I said WE because I am a current employee suffering through your BS excuses and lack of direction. Yep - I have been in those meetings SA. Care to guess?

The previous post pretty much sums up concisely what will be going on in LA next year. Several in management have already confirmed this strategy. Roughly 100 of the remaining 300 by December will be gone through 2010. Half from the remaining RIA manufacturing when it finally shutsdown and another 50 or so from a 20% reduction in R&D labs at CrossPoint.
More than half that facility will be leaed in just over a year as well. It's just taking a bit longer than expected finding other Siemens entities to move in.
A few Centaur projects will be coming to LA as Immulite projects wear down but this only effect a small group of people. Certain departments have far too many PHd's for the amount of work left. Between this and six digit salaried department heads no longer needed it's expected for Siemens to clean house through packages next year.

Siemens DX main emphasis for LA in 2010 is the "cut and run" savings plan strategy. Most of the facilities will either be shut, as with the case of 96th St. and continued leasing of the CrossPoint Facility to other Siemens companies in the area. The RIA division wil either be sold off or just finally ended.
R&D will finally get the trimming it's needed the past three years. Several key management personnel have accepted positions outside of California or just plain leaving. CrossPoint is set for two things: 1)Expect changes within departments and 2)Major remodel on second floor for leasing out.
LA's employee base will be roughly 300 by end of December. In 2010 after RIA is gone and R&D is cutback the number will be roughly 200. At this number it's much more financial sustainable but still a far cry from the original 1000 from just a few years ago.
Anyway you look at it, 2010 will be a very rough year in LA for the remainig R&D groups and small manufacturing RIA department.

Apologies to the Deuce readers for all of these Glasgow-related posts. Obviously these ex duPonters are too lazy to start their own thread.

No, I'm not shilling for Deerfield. I worked in Glasgow for many years and left the company some time ago. No doubt there are unhappy people at the site (no doubt you can find unhappy employees at Goldman Sachs or Google, for that matter), but your assertion that most of the site is unhappy just isn't true. If you look at turnover rates the last 10 years, the site has experienced virtually no voluntary turnover. Compare that to du Pont, MBNA, GM, Chrysler and other large emplyers in DE. Since '98 the site has added jobs and seen R&D expand significantly. Seems reasonable to think that this would make more than a few people happy. Ask former Dade/Siemens employees from Miami or LA if they wouldn't prefer the situation in Glasgow.

As for surveys, you don't know what you are talking about. Management/HR looks at trends over time. Individual comments may grab attention, but anyone with an iota of market research experience or statistical knowledge knows not to place much weight on these. Companies take great pains to avoid access to individual responses by name. Why? Say someone gets fired and claims the company did so because of a negative survey response. That employee's lawyer would have access to the survey details through discovery. Most companies are smart enough to avoid such an obvious legal risk. More relevant at Dade/Siemens, JRA and DQ were not/are not vindictive people. Whatever you think of them, they both were/are pretty earnest about seeking employee feedback.

Just a suggestion -- why don't you sober up and start your own thread about the good old days at du Pont? You can post about the wonders of aca, the management accumen of BD or whatever else makes you happy. I'm sure a (small) circle will join you and enjoy the nostalgia.

You're right. No Way those surveys are truely anonymous. If you want HONEST feedback, ask for anonymous letters. These must be mailed to a 3rd party PO Box. Otherwise it's all BS.

You must have been (or be) one of the Deerfield sycophants. Very few people at Glasgow were happy. The employee survey was a joke. It was widely believed that since you had to access it from a link in your email it was in no way anonymous. Do you really think that elicited honest and candid responses? If so, I’d like some of what you are smoking.

You really don't know what you are talking about. The vast majority of employees were happy with life at Dade, as indicated by employee surveys and a turnover rate that approached 0%. Also, R&D spending more than doubled during JR-A's tenure as CEO, so the assertion that he focused only on the short-term is rubbish.

But I agree with the earlier poster -- it is much more relevant to focus on the current state. Here's the thing, though, you can't have it both ways. To integrate the three businesses, any DX CEO needs to deal with redundancies. That means people lose their jobs. Assay development in LA falls in that category, as does manufacturing. Seems to me the people who have been laid off have been treated reasonably well, with long notice periods, market-level or better severance, etc. It is too bad this needs to happen, but you can't meet the financial targets without consolidation and layoffs. The truth is that only one reagent plant is needed to support the Immulite business ww, and the Llanbris plant made sense as the point of consolidation. At least JR-A dealt with the matter -- AB couldn't even reach a decision in his tenure as CEO.

Siemens bought these three businesses and decided JR-A was the best person to run the combined entity. That wasn't JR-A's decision, it was Siemens'. JR-A did that job for awhile and was then promoted to head the Healthcare business because ER was tossed overboard in the bribery scandal. JR-A left because Siemens decided he needed to relo to Germany for a variety of tax reasons. JR-A didn't want to move, so they decided to part ways. It wasn't a big mystery. Siemens has kept DQ running DX because he's more qualified to do it than anyone else at Siemens.

This is exactly my point. Certainly from the shareholder POV the financial manipulation went very well and made everyone money. As usual for US business analysts these days, the fact that the employee is also a stakeholder in the company was completely ignored. I find this especially humorous in the face of all the complaints from management about the lack of employee loyalty. Also, the long term viability and, dare I say it, growth of the business was ignored in favor of short term profits. This has become another hallmark of US business leaders these days.

"They have not served Siemens or their DX co-workers well."
END QUOTE

Name me one CEO who has? Name me someone in Senior Management who has especially in LA? They are all manipulators who for the past three years have only cared about their own jobs and nothing regarding those who work for them. Actually, LA's R&D Senior Management is the perfect example of this. Well, money speaks. If you want loyalty go get a dog. It's the sign of the times. Looking forward to the day these guys leave. JRA was an excellent manipulator and fit in well with Siemens. Still don't know why he decided to leave. Maybe just cash out.
One thing for sure is Siemens DX hasn't come close to expectations for Siemens with the past two years of flat growth and you can't blame the global recession on that alone.
East Coast facilities are still pretty tight within DX. LA's labs, for the most part, can be dramatically cut just with outsourcing.
Much of this will take place in 2010.
Flanders is doing better now that they're continuing Immulite manufacturing there. EURO, despite their problems, is growing and will handle much of Immulites reagent manufacturing.
LA employee's were informed much of Immulites extended menu will now be tranfered to the Centaur instead. No one was surprised.
Just another piece of Happy Holiday news.
Is DX giving a "stip" this year?

You are correct from the shareholder POV. Restructurings and associated rewards for the participants often increase the value of stocks. This, of course, has nothing necessarily to do with increasing the value of the business. It is hard to see alot in the way of new things coming out from Dade after they acquired DuPont and the Dimension. The did have a nice funeral for the Dade Paramax, but no one really cared. Most of the comments about the Dade people hear have nothing to do with how they added shareholder value with a restructuring. They deal with what the ex-Dade people did with Siemens DX after the Siemens acquisition. Reports certainly suggest no great increase in sales; Vista is the same old story we've been hearing for two years and still no significant market penetration. Most people don't care what the Dade people like JR-A and his crew did before the acquisition and how many people they got rich. The criticism here is that they did nothing positive to help the new Siemens DX organization grow and their clownish behavior coupled with their arrogance caused increase divisiveness among the components of Siemens DX rather than a unification and common sense of purpose. They have not served Siemens or their DX co-workers well.

Boy, you've been nursing that grudge for a long time. Retention bonuses were approved by the debtholders committee that supervised all aspects of the debt restructuring at Dade. They didn't feel manipulated -- they all made 100 cents on the dollar plus upside on the equity once Dade went public, if they held on to the paper that long. Equity owners after the restructuring felt even better ... made 8x their money if they owned shares from the time Dade went public until the Siemens acquisition. If that's manipulation, lots of people would sign up for it in a second.

JR-A was NOT a good businessman. He was however an excellent financial manipulator. With hindsight it is pretty easy to see he was not interested in long term organic growth of the company and long term development of the company’s employees. He was in it only for the money for him and his cabal. Remember only 57 out of some 6000 employees got retention bonuses during the Chapter 11 debacle. I believe they were all paid out in less than 1 year, an incredibly short time for a “retention” bonus. A constant mantra of his handpicked R&D head (MW-P) was “lower the mill cost” regardless of effect on quality. They needed a story to tell whatever hapless buyer they found. I am convinced this is something they intended from the very beginning. It also made him and his friends VERY rich.

Whatever happened to ole DO, CSO, originally from DPC ISD in NJ. He must must be pissing himself to every got himself involved with the Zs.

More garbage from ex Bayer people. Who is this? JN? JB? Your opinions about RD and SA are worthless. Sales are down because there's been a global recession. Are you going to blame them for that? Let the poor ex DPC LAers whine in peace ... your idiotic posts shouldn't disrupt their catharsis. JR-A didn't "stop halfway", he left. Simple as that. He could not come to an agreement with PL and the Board about where he should reside, so he quit. Not that complicated. By the way, ER, PL, HR and the current Board bought these businesses and made all the promises about what would happen ... that wasn't Dade, DPC or Bayer management (although if anyone would have been stupid enough to make such promises, it would have been Bayer management including AB, JN, JB et al).

Actually, JRA, was a good "businessman". Now if that meant cutting jobs, shutting sites and sending people packing for the good of the company then that's exactly what he did. Truth is that was exactly what was needed at that time. You don't buy three companies and expect all three to stay intact. He started the process but stopped, for whatever reason, halfway through.
Loescher now is forcing the issue throughout Siemens to cut everything that needs to be cut. His interview was finally plain and clear and not full of any "sugar coating", DQ, is still using in DX. I have no doubt that soon will also change.
Now as far as LA is concerned,they are considered the redundant site within DX. Although it won't be fully shutdown for a few years they'll have their employee base go from 1000 (before the layoffs three years ago) to around 200 remaining R&D employees within a year. Anything more than that is redundant. That's only roughly 50 more pinkslips within R&D. RIA will be gone in 2010 with another 65 gone as well.

JRA was a good man? DQ.... Problem is no growth in sales revenues for the past two years. That happened when Dade came to town. Where is the sales whiz SA or RD....where are the sales? No one else left to blame anymore .... it is all on the Dade boys.

I agree with your scenerio except with the time frame.
In fact, many in management have told me this plan several times over the past year. But your LA R&D time frame of three or more years isn't what Siemens has planned unless the other facilities can't handle the extra load which is doubtful.
Siemens DX will continue going through a reorganization of sorts through 2010 in both workers and management. Loescher was correct in saying he can't sit on the sidelines anymore with future orders becoming non-existent (currently down 70%) and with a non-significant growth Healthcare Division still dealing with redundant site locations which should have been shutdown over two years ago. JRA did half his job and then decided to play politics. Didn't work out well for him within Siemens. Pity, he was a good man with the experience. DQ is a far second who still doesn't understand Loecher's comments regarding necessary cuts. At least 50% of LA's R&D is redundant within DX with both Bayer and Dade east coast sites well able to handle the workload.
I've visited most of them and none of this should be a problem.
LA's shrunken R&D will strictly work as a service provider for them and the EURO facility. Ironically, I must admit Biofind's DEUCE has been the only legitimate source of what has happened to LA, in some cases, years before management ever showed their hands. In fact several in management have been linked to this post from its beginning despite the Witch Hunts Senior Management keeps pursuing.

It's official...LA's 96th St. Manufacturing Plant is now a Ghost Town. Only about 70 people will be staying to run the RIA line till sometime next year when it's expected to either be sold or shutdown. No potential buyers (several over the years) have gone through with the deal. More details will follow as become known.
CrossPoint is turning bleak as well. Over 1/2 of the second floor is now vacant and the facility is full of anxiety ridden R&D people who constantly ask, "have you heard anything?".
The long awaited Town Hall after the Senior Directors of R&D met on east coast hasn't materialized yet. That alone should tell you something. The place will muddle on though.
The best case scenerio still hoped for is 1/2 of CrossPoint facility leased out (positive cashflow) while the other half stays DX R&D after a well rumored 20% layoff next year. Not even management is arguing that point anymore. Most of the Senior management has bailed or in process. Shamefully, after years of service, they'll only be remembered for the last three years.
Well, everyone makes their choices.
With Immulite still holding on it's still conceivable a smaller LA R&D can stay put for a possible three years or more.
After that it's more than likely both EURO and east coast facilities will take over. LA is just too expensive a place to continue without increased leasing out regardless.

Percentages might not be intellectually satisfying but they are eye opening. 110 people are leaving today with 40 more in December.
LA went from 1000 "DPC" employee's to 300 "Siemens" in 3.5 years.
A 20% R&D layoff will only be roughly 60 more.
1/3 of the relatively new CrossPoint Facility is being leased out in early 2010. Front runner is still Siemens Imaging.
Although it's still a rumor, it's fully expected the remaining facility on 96th will be shutdown or sold (RIA line) no later than end of 2010 as well.
In all honesty it made perfect financial sense for moving manufacturing out of LA and the package offered was excellent. Sadly, R&D personnel, will not be getting the same package (roughly 40% of it if nothing is changed)we did. This is big business at work. With 70% of Siemens orders down they really have no choice but to finally make cuts of the redundancies between Bayer, Dade and DPC. I start my new job in three weeks but will keep an eye on LA as it continues to fold into itself.

While it may be intellectually satisfying to try to figure out how an announcement in Germany concerning the number or percentage of people to be laid off, keep in mind that the 'averages' don't usually extend to a division that is operating under its own re-organization plan. Diagnostics is clearly still being re-organized (or integrated, whatever word you choose to use) and probably has its own separate plan for layoffs. What should be of greatest concern is the growth in sales and profit in DX (or the lack, thereof) in the past few years. The obvious expectation when you acquire 3 companies is that there will be a signifcant growth due to a combination of synergy and streamlining (layoffs). If this is not, in fact, happening, you can be certain that there will be some major changes in the upper levels of DX. Don't expect Siemens to be any more patient with its new DX group than Bayer was after it acquired Miles and Technicon. The fact that both acquisitons were mismanaged (partially due to overoptimistic due diligence during the disclosure phase of the acquisitions) will not save the heads of those chosen to make DX a growth area for Siemens. LA is history. All that remains is to watch those that remain try to guess how long it will take and who will lease the various facilities. The real action in DX will take place when Siemens gets tired of the excuses and lack of growth.

This confirms the 750 Healthcare layoffs announced a few weeks ago in London. Actually, probably much than that now.
With a 70% decrease in orders, Siemens, might have waited too long to finally make the necessary larger cuts.
All sectors will be hit with the cuts including DX which, according to Management, has had flat growth the past two years. Redundant sites will finally be shed of excess. All of this will significantly hit in 2010.
LA's R&D will more than likely shed anywhere from 50-70 employee's if the 20% layoff rumor is correct (and I believe it is). The numbers might be lower but dependant on how many leave on their own. Considering early retirment packages for those over 50 and the "miserable" average raises for 2010 (1.4-1.7%) more people are considering looking elsewhere.
Most of the middle management there has also confirmed this. Many broke their silence because they're leaving.
We will eventually get a Siemens Memo "confirmation" in the near future.

The Associated Press October 25, 2009, 7:08AM ET text size: TT
Siemens says it plans job cuts, gives no details

BERLIN

German industrial conglomerate Siemens AG is planning job cuts "in some business areas or at some locations," its CEO was quoted as telling weekly Welt an Sonntag on Sunday.

Siemens CEO Peter Loescher said that because of the financial crisis, "some parts of our business areas have had a decline of orders by up to 70 percent."

"In this case, one can't just stand on the sidelines and watch," Loescher said, adding that the Munich-based company had to take the necessary steps to react to the crisis.

He did not elaborate where or when the company would lay off employees or how many people would be affected.

"It will take a long time until there will be an expansion of our capacities again, like the one during the boom years of 2007 and 2008," Loescher was quoted as telling the paper.

Quote
"Why do people continue to expect a completely honest and open Town Meeting on the part of management. Perhaps the people in LA are simply not used to dealing with a German company and even after all these years still don't get it. Those who dealt with Bayer for 15+ years understand what these meetings (called Communications Meetings under Bayer) are all about:"
END Quote

I think you missed the point of the poster. "No One" expects any truth at these Town Halls. Regardless, we already know what will be happening anyway unofficially or otherwise.
But like a five year old who tells his parents about the giant dog who jumped through the window into his room, ate his homework, ate all the kitchen cookies and tossed his toys everywhere...we find it humorous hearing all these wonderful "stories" come from R&D Senior Management. It's also cheaper than a Vegas Show on the Strip.
Many of these people have been around for years. Some even had a few accomplishments. But, sadly, all they'll be remembered for when they are gone are the silly "stories" of how wonderful things are. Any reputation or respect they might have once is already long gone anyway. At least they'll get a good retirement package. Money talks. They might not have any character but they won't be going hungry. No need to grieve for them. The ones who actually understood the business, and people respected, left years ago. They knew where all this was heading.
I totally agree with the poster regarding Immulites 17% sales gain. It really has nothing to do with LA. Both instrumentation and reagents are not manufactured there anymore. As far as further assay menu development is concerned...it doesn't exist other than less than a handful being worked on. That is the reality. LA's R&D is being scaled down and CrossPoint will eventually be taken over by other Siemens non-DX companies.
For those who like percentages: 50& of employee's (450) and property sites are gone from three years ago. An additional 20%-30% of R&D , less than 100 employee's, is really nothing for Siemens to send packing without skipping a breath.
Considering the workload and projects they are no longer needed anyway. This is the reality of it people.
But we can all look forward to the "stories" at our next Town Hall.

Why do people continue to expect a completely honest and open Town Meeting on the part of management. Perhaps the people in LA are simply not used to dealing with a German company and even after all these years still don't get it. Those who dealt with Bayer for 15+ years understand what these meetings (called Communications Meetings under Bayer) are all about:

We will speak; and you will listen !!!

You will learn no more at the next Town Meeting or the one after that. Management has made it totally clear that they will tell you what they want you to know and when they want you to know it. Maybe you will finally get it when you head out the door for the last time.

Basically, some Department Heads and Managers have been telling their people exactly the same thing as your post the past few weeks regarding the CrossPoint Facility plans for early next year.
Siemens is also already looking at bids for the 96th St. RIA line and giving additional tours of the facilty. Last heard the current interested party are the Chinese.
R&D Senior Management (a group getting smaller and smaller by the week) is not looking forward to the next Town Hall (not scheduled yet) where they know they'll be finally squeezed into the corner regarding CrossPoints R&D fate. Just don't expect any truthful changes in their answers. They've dug such a ditch of fodder for themselves the past three years they'll make no attempt to climb out. As far as the 17% or so increase in Immulite sales in concerned it really has nothing to do with LA. It effects the Flanders Facility where they are being built and EURO where reagents are now manufactured. Apparently they forgot to tell you that at the last meeting as well.

Another DPC old-timer, KM, is leaving Siemens LA.
These people are smart. They know something is coming next year.
Roughly 110 are leaving this week and another 40 in December.
That comes to over 450 the past two years and mostly all from manufacturing. When the remaining R&D gets hit with a 20%-30% layoff next year you're only talking an additional 60-90 people. This is a drop in the bucket to Siemens. A mere blink of an eye.
Within a year (or less), Siemens will be totally out of 96th St and 1/3 or more of CrossPoint's employee base will be non-DX. A good chance the Imaging branch of Healthcare will be taking over the facility and leaving a small Immulite R&D contingent. The remaining R&D will be a service provider to EURO (Immulite Reagents)and also assisting east coast with some Centaur evaluations first being done on the Immulite as well.
The upside is the leasing will help stabilize the cash bleeding from the R&D side and give the remaining R&D labs a few more years of employment. This re-organization will take place starting early next year including an extensive remodeling of the second floor before the new tenants move in.

Immulites swan song has continued with the news that new allergen testing is being switched over to the Centaur instrument.
This also continues the increase of R&D work being transferred out of LA to East Coast and will continue through 2010.
Several middle management employee's from LA will also be moving to east coast by years end and early 2010. Siemens has interviewed several management personnel and now just picking and choosing those they want at other facilities outside of LA to help carry the ball.
DX plans for the Immulite is strictly as an esoteric assay instrumentation in labs and as an initial R&D platform for testing future menu development assays for Centaur, Vista as well as other instruments still in the designing stage.
Downside is this also increases the amount of R&D employee's no longer needed at the LA site and it's been rumored for months an R&D layoff in 2010 is highly likely. Leasing and consolidation is expected to start by early next year as well.

I heard it was UCLA going to 96th St. and Siemens Imaging going to CrossPoint. We should know within a few weeks.

I just heard the "Z's" are leasing out the old 96th St. facility once Siemens vacates. Does anyone know whom will be moving in?
Another RIA sale rumor is making the rounds. This time some Chinese company is interested in buying the RIA line and that deal is either done or very close.

Although Immulite is still turning a profit for Siemens it's not part of the "main" line being pushed by sales reps which are both the Centaur and Vista. Siemens has decided to leave Immulite for certain esoteric assays and used as a platform for R&D evaluations for assays destined for the previously named instruments.
Very few new assays are being developed for the Immulite itself.
This decision was made over two years ago. It's also another reason the LA branch of DX is slowly being consolidated in size and manufacturing has left or in process of doing so. Strictly a business "cost saving" decision.
The LA branch doesn't manufacture Immulites nor it's reagents either anymore. The R&D departments are being cut back to mirror these changes and mainly function as a service provider for both the EURO and east coast facilities where reagents have been transfered.
You can't blame Siemens considering it's really the only financial choice they have regarding LA.
Most R&D development in LA is strictly reworking old kits already on the Immulite platform. Minimal bang for the buck.
1/3-1/2 of the CrossPoint facility will be leased out next year to initiate a positive cash flow and help stem the cost of any remaining R&D departments. As many have mentioned here before, no long term plan for LA was ever part of Siemens DX plan.
The cost of keeping these facilities in LA without leasing negates
any financial profit. Another reason why many companies are relocating out of the region.
Siemens employee policy is giving two months notice which is probably the most those in R&D will receive after any cuts are finally made public next year.

We have(figured it out long ago)that is.
DEUCE was created for exactly that purpose and a place to share information. Your comments are sound but there are other alternatives. I'm refering to older employees and the job market for them in LA after Siemens. Pretty dismal out there. Sticking it out for them till the bitter end actually pays off. Six months pay, PTO cash payoff and unemployment benefits will help take the place of the manufacturing package no longer available for older R&D employees who stayed 20years or longer.
But a smaller R&D contingency in LA is still viable for several more years till Immulite is finally buried in the dust. Just depends on who makes the cut and what percentages each department will be cut. The entire facility will not be shutdown next year but, as you said, a long term "CrossPoint" R&D facility in LA was NEVER part of Siemens plan. No, most of us are not like the silly management which runs the place. But we are weighing our financial options
while also scanning the job market.
Appreciate your comments and hope they wakeup a few more people.