Did you see that they are now talking about increasing the dividend by 15%? They saved all that money by pfiring us, so now they'll reward the spoils to the major shareholders like Kindler, McKinnell, and Steere.

"Working Together for a Wealthier Kindler"

Thanks, Doom. Finally a voice of reason and knowledge.

Don't bother asking
The answer doesn't vary
They'll break you down
Then the survivors will carry
You off of the site
Back home to your abode
Then JK will say it was all for the good
What a load.

Dr Doom

With all these constant pfirings, Pfizer is headed on the pfast track pfor pfailure!

If you get a job at another company, such as its competition, you just might get "promoted." I did! And I'm lovin' it!

There is definitely much better life waiting for you outside pfizer.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/177265-do-pfizer-s-layoffs-comply-with-n...

is anyone aware of similar underhand techniques at other sites? What are they trying to do, pretend to the public that this is not happening?

How does Pfizer pfire? Why all the time of course!

I would ask Dr Doom, who is the best source of Pfizer info. He has his own thread now where it appears he answers questions. (Not Dr Doom myself, just a fan).

I give how does Lilly fire?

Pfizer sounds downright humane. Now ask someone how Lilly fires.

Exactly my experience as well, only I was given 30 minutes notice for the meeting. Then I met with one of the Directors in an empty Office in HR. Don't know why it wasn't in his Office. Maybe he didn't want to do it in an Office with blunt objects close by, like one of those stupid Team Awards,that could be used to crack his skull open in a fit of rage. He was clearly anxious when I walked into the room because I am known for having a temper but I was cool. The worst part was having to slink about the place for two weeks, pretending you had something important to do, before being sent off on your 60 day warn period.

How goes Pfire?
1.You get a meeting maker through outlook 15 minutes before you have to be there, with no subject and all the "important" flags.
2.You are summoned to your lowest level managers office.
3.They tell you a bunch of shit in between the alligator tears and hand you a "departing employee checklist".
4.You slink out of the meeting and everyone who was retained treats you like a leper. Get ready to hear "I'm sorry" and "It is so unfair" a million times before you leave from people you hardly even know in the hallways.
5.Two weeks later you hand your computer, electronic devices, and sign the departing employee checklist in your managers office. Then you go to your HR exit interview and hand over your badge and sign a piece of paper. You get this piece of paper for the state unemployment office from HR and they give you back the non disclosure agreement you signed when you joined up.
6.In about two months you get paid the package (45 days for me), so budget accordingly.

That was my experience

How about "normal distribution" requirements for perf-ratings??
So you often have some poor sap who needs to get a lower metric so you can be in compliance with the HR guidelines. Just think of the eventuality of actually having a group of high performers, and needing to rank them on a distribution curve,!!!!!!! or change a rating (often settled on much much earlier than the employee realizes)to meet a distriburtion requirement. And then getting a "talking sheet" to help you explain it to the poos sap(s). Oh my!!!

The SPAM FILTERS took out some of my text. Here's complete post

HR lawyers will advise that the best way to get rid of the older and higher paid employee is for poor performance (wink)(wink)

So, you need to start documenting their poor performance NOW (wink)

Six months later, a person with 15, 20, 25 or more years with PFE with GOOD reviews, suddenly gets a poor review and put on a Perf Plan. Amazingly, no matter what that employee does, they do NOT meet expectations.

Back to the HR lawyer who says, you can get rid of them now - good job with the documentation. (wink)

HR lawyers will advise that the best way to get rid of the older and higher paid employee is for poor performance

So, you need to start documenting their poor performance

Six months later, a person with 15, 20, 25 or more years with PFE with GOOD reviews, suddenly gets a poor review and put on a Perf Plan. Amazingly, no matter what that employee does, they do NOT meet expectations.

Back to the HR lawyer who says, you can get rid of them now - good job with the documentation

Seriously, they can't do it just on age and salary. HR lawyers will advise against that for obvious reasons.

I have got great skills, particularly for biotech, but will that matter?

No - how good are you at brown-nos**g?

Getting ATS'd is the best thing that could happen to you.

Yes sick of Pfizer

I'm going out on the next wave and looks like I may have a job as early as day 2. Any advice?

take a lot of days off to get PFE out of your system - as mnay of the 60-day free pay - however long your new employer can wait

How does Pfizer Pfire? Based on my first hand experience:
1. If your site, unit or department is eliminated, you’re gone no matter who you are.

Except if you are the site head or group head, then you are too valuable to be let go.

Amen, Brother!

true by law only allowed to say you worked there, pay scale, years worked and last position held, anything else you can sue. However, biotech has a big grapevine and they will not call you references just ask around, if you are not in favor forget it you willnot be considered.

simply answer 'en masse'

Yup!

Sounds like you will be coming to PFE. You will get a sweet deal and get hired in above everyone. In addition, you will be safe on your reviews with a 3.0.....while everyone else gets jobbed in your department.

-Expect change, always! If nothing is changing you are not aware of it or it is coming.
-Just because the building, equipment, department and so on are new, this is not a sign of stability.
-If you have the budget buy it or the budget will disappear and someone else will get the money.
-Keep your outside network fresh and connections up to date, just in case.

Don't worry, you'll probably come to Pfizer La Jolla on a sweet deal and get hired in over all our heads.

I'm going out on the next wave and looks like I may have a job as early as day 2. Any advice?

I'm going out on the next wave and looks like I may have a job as early as day 2. Any advice?

” My former manager heard that I was offered a job and kept emailing me trying to find out my start date.”

What a loser! I am pretty sure my former manager at Pfizer knew I had a new job right away, but even though I confess I don’t like him at all, even he had more class than that!

Well, you might also be smart enough to list as references persons whose discretion you trust.

They DID call Pfizer to check references. They called my former manager and a couple of people whose names I gave as references. While I was still considered to be an Pfizer employee, I was no longer on site. My last day was in January 2006, I received full pay and benefits until March, but I started the new job in mid-February. The cover letter with my package requested that I call the company if I got a job before the end of March, but the document I signed didn't say anything about that.

By the way - I was the youngest person in my exit meeting. I was 44 at the time...

"Nobody gives you another job before they've taken up your references."

In my experience (over 30 years), references are almost never called. Employers know that if you put someone on your reference list, they will certainly say only good things about you, so why bother? Most of the biotech in this country is located in just a few geographical locations. In any company you apply to, chances are there are former coworkers of your already working there who are not on your list. You can bet that the hiring mgr will get their opinions of you before even calling you for an interview. If you made too many enemies in your career, you might have to relocate if you want to keep working in this field since they will effectively blackball you.

You're the one that's full of it. U think companies call your present employer to check on a reference! Good way to loose a job. Good way to get sued for making someone loose their job. Maybe that's the way they do things in the UK, that would make sense.

What a load of b*llsh*t. Nobody gives you another job before they've taken up your references. The company will know if you have another job because they will have been asked for the references.

I was ATS'd 3 years ago and did the same as the previous poster, got a new job 5 weeks before my warn period was over. If you do that, just don't tell anybody still at Pfizer that you got a job. My former manager heard that I was offered a job and kept emailing me trying to find out my start date.

That is if you bother to tell Pfizer you have got a new job. Just don’t tell them and take the package and warn period salary anyway. When I was ATS, the HR specialist talking us through the system did everything but tell us openly not to tell Pfizer if we got a new job during the warn period. It would have been fire- able for him to actually say it, but the hints were pretty heavy and we all got the message.

As someone advised you earlier, take the package and go. At PFE, with 17 years, you would get 64 weeks worth. Start looking for jobs now - it will take you some time to get one. Hopefully, when the time comes, the prospective employer will wait a couple of months till you get your package. Or maybe you will get the job only after you are laid off. In any case, take the package. What is Wyeth give for 17 years?

How does Pfizer Pfire? Based on my first hand experience:
1. If your site, unit or department is eliminated, you’re gone no matter who you are.
2. If there are only some jobs cut, they may reorganize and post the “new” jobs for bid while eliminating the “old” jobs. If the jobs are not changed they are supposed to choose those to be cut by performance.
This is supposed to be done on merit (best qualified with best performance retained or “hired” into the “new” job. However, like anywhere else, politics intrudes. Does the deciding manager like you? Do they like someone else better? Are you more senior or paid more than your peers? (they have budget $$ to hit). Do you have enemies in the organization who will badmouth you? If you are Wyeth, does the deciding Pfizer manager even know you or do they have friends at Pfizer whom they will choose over you? Even good performance reviews are no guarantee. I have seen firsthand Pfizer managers manipulate those scores to cut the ones they wanted to cut. It all comes down to your personal fit with the one making the decision. Just the same as how you got the job in the first place.

I hear after Wyeth announcement, some of ATSed individuals (exit dates in April) are called back and offered to stay.
Anyone from your group?

How does Pfizer Pfire?......well if you are a great worker, very productive with no contacts.....you are gone. If you don't know a thing, concentrate on metrics that mask what is really going on and go to barbecues at the VP's house? You are set for life!

Hey, 25 year old....someday you'll be an industry old timer, and then you'll get it.

But for now...F-off.

Oh my God - I've just been let go and I'm only 25. Do I have a case?

May God have mercy on your sole

Pfizer went out of there way in the sales department to change tenured older reps quotas "5" times in 2007 so in the end they could give them a lower review and reps who were not even there in 2007 they automatically gave them a higher review to get rid of older higher cost people. This is fact - If you are older and make more money than someone who is younger who has your similiar skills you are OUT....bottom line it's the bottom line dollar. PFE is hurting and needs to make the changes to effect their bottom line. That is the fact.

I totally agree with you. I saw many people who were less qualified who sucked up to the boss that kept their jobs with Pfizer. Those more qualified that were not suck ups or YES people who actually could think and have an opinion were severed. In Indiana though it all had to do with sucking up to T Clark and what you could negotiate with him. People were offered deals on the side. This should never have happened. It is unfortunate that Pfizer keeps poor managers like this.

Not only if you are old you are out. But if you performed well over the years and your salary is high you are out. Pfizer has very tough times ahead and is doing everything they can to eliminate higher salary individuals. It just so happens that these same people were those who are older and have more years in with the company. I know of people in my area that were kept because they did not get the same promotions I got - my performance was better so I got the promotions, but they did not get the promotions so they were less expensive to keep. So there job was saved and my was severed. It didn't pay in my opionion to work for Pfizer and give them 10+ years of 70 hours per week when others were slacking and making less, didnt't get promoted then saved their job. I guess if mediocracy is what you want it's what you get, but if high performing individuals is what you want then it cost more money.

Selectively everyone was NOT on the age list which Pfizer sent out. I know for a fact people who had certain positions were not listed on there. The information Pfizer gave on that list is not accurate. They are just trying to have less law suits on age discrimination. The other thing is - the 8 questions - they did not keep those who had the highest score in every situation. Pfizer said one thing and did a completely different thing. I know the regional manager now state director for Indiana made comments consistentely that he would prefer to have a young person working for him versus an older more tenured person.

Of course, it's a complete mess and the shareholders should be demanding blood, come the AGM:
Older workers are more experienced and more productive. This policy of getting rid of older staff has destroyed productivity and knocked a big hole in the capability of the company to deliver on its targets.
Older workers cost a lot more to fire. Does anyone have a figure on the cost of all of these lay-offs?
Workers over 50 are nearer to retirement. If you keep a 50 year on you are only committing to employing them for a few more years. If you keep the 25 year old you are stuck with them for the next 40 years (unless you pay out another tranche of money to get rid of them and keep the next batch of fresh young faces).
Firing older workers is illegal. The company would face big pay-outs if discrimination were proved.
Whichever was you look at it, a policy of shedding older workers is madness. There is no economic justification for it. If it is happening it can only be because younger workers are more naive and less able to see the gaping flaws in the management.

"My only crime is the fact that I turn 50 this year. The last poster is dead right. If you're old, you're out."

If you think you're depressed now, wait til you get out there in the job market. It was bad enough for us geezers during good economic times and now, it's virtually impossible. I'm a 50+ scientist whose company folded recently. I applied for every opening I may be qualified for in a 100 mile radius and got not 1 call. I think HR screeners take 1 look at my resume, make a quick calculation how old I must be, and toss it right in the round file. When my unemployment runs out, I see a future as a Walmart greeter.

I was ATSed - yes I'm over 50. My manager had made comments about my age to me - so I knew where he was coming from. When I look around the room at others that were ATSed; the vast majority met THREE criteria:

1. white

2. male

3. near or over 50