Oh come on Mikey. You can do better than that.

"And you are?"

....someone superior to you in every way. Now go cry yourself to sleep.

"This is almost certainly utter nonsense but if it helps you sleep at night then fine. In your entire career, what pray tell, was the major contribution to medicine that you made which makes you such an expert and gives you the right to attack managerial decisions?"

There is only one former Oncology Manager from Pfizer that could intimate that Pfizer managerial decisions where beyond reproach, and do so with a straight face, and his initials are MM.

So tell us Mikey, what great contribution did you make at Pfizer? Give me one example of your expert brinksmanship that resulted in a tangible benefit to mankind that only you, and you alone, where capable of producing?

And when it comes to checking stock price, who the fuck are you kidding? You walked off with the biggest bag of loot from that group and I had to listen to brag, more than once, about how well your investments have appreciated, about your second home in MA, etc, etc. Fucking pompous ass all the way and I see you still survive by blow smoke up peoples asses, especially your own. How else could your ego stay at the same altitude for so long?

I sleep well at night knowing that I no longer have to work for a self inflated zero like you any longer.

Timwit! It's you!

"I usually didn't hold back with what I thought about projects"

i love the way some staff try to rewrite history in their own heads. This is almost certainly utter nonsense but if it helps you sleep at night then fine. In your entire career, what pray tell, was the major contribution to medicine that you made which makes you such an expert and gives you the right to attack managerial decisions? I ask this knowing that if you had made any impact you would not be resorting to posting such cries for help. Discovery chemistry and biology have, for a long time, been populated by the most self-deluded and downright dishonest individuals i have ever had the misfortune to work with on either side of the pond. If you even had the slightest degree of integrity or understanding you would accept that Pfizer was the luckiest of the big pharma. From the earliest days of Diflucan, Istin, Viagra and then the absorption of Lipitor and Celebrex. Our own discovery efforts contributed virtually nothing to these drugs. People like you simply coasted on the work and discoveries of others. Groton chemistry is/was particularly inept. To quote my Wyeth colleague, 'the average Pfizer chemist (and there is no other type), couldn't spot a drug in Wallgreens.'
So please, leave the science to academia. You have continually proven yourself incapable. And please stop trying to re-invent your own personal history by claiming to have been the one to stand up and be counted. All you did was log on and check the share price.

"1. bleating like sheep anonymously on the web."

And you are?

Kinase is the problem.

The Emperor has spoken.

pfizer never changes - a company of cowardly wankers, Groton being wanker central. One idiot posts anonymously using initials only - another idiot misunderstands - and then the initial idiot rips into him/her for misunderstanding. That's certainly how Pfizer does their science. The inconvenient truth is that, to a man, Pfizer could have closed research down in 1999 and your company would not have been any worse off. And then you wonder why management don't listen when you clearly only achieve in two areas
1. bleating like sheep anonymously on the web
2. claimimg you all stood up for what you believed in (liars)

You're pathetic and you dont deserve to be employed by anyone. I can't imagine what its like to be some of you people, awakening every morning, looking in the mirror and realising that thats the best you will ever be. But keep posting. It makes the rest of us realise just how great our lives are.

Talking about a different MM

Glad to see you still copy/paste the same old rants - is that how you did your 'science' ;-)

hold on, is that true? Did our boy Marty try to start his own company? When was this? Presumably after AZ also realised he was a worthless piece of intellectual canon fodder. If this is true then we should all rejoice. Perhaps there is hope for the industry if people are now beginning to see through the bullshitters-in-suits. MM was one of the originators of Powerpoint science, his whole career dedicated to ......err, his whole career. Not a minute of that mans working life involved any understanding of science or drug discovery and even less was dedicated to giving a damn about patients. His type must never be allowed to start a company; Mark Levin and others showed that back around 2000 with the likes of Millennium and others. It was all about them, not the patient. MM simply wants to line his own pockets by using the sick as leverage and get his photo on the front of Forbes in the process. Well tough titty. We need scientists, not scientologists.

MM. Oh, yes I remember when we'd have those yearly one on ones with him so he could make himself look good to the Big Shots. I usually didn't hold back with what I thought about projects etc, some of which proved to be monumental wastes of time and money, and he didn't take that well. Pompous ass. No wonder he got turned down by Venture Capitalists when he tried to form his own start up. Even they knew a pretend Scientist when they saw one!

"Yeah but they did eventually get into kinase inhibitors. They were always real good at playing follow the leader. Who was in charge of Oncology in 95? MM? I could see him saying something like that. He was not very good at seeing the truth. The only thing that tool cared about was making himself look good to the big shots."

Yeah, it was MM. Dead right about "playing follow the leader" -- the fire drills in Groton were continuous about jumping to work on whatever targets Merck/Glaxo/SKB had recently presented on. Man, glad those days at that unimaginative place are long gone.

If the drug (>$1.5 billion) discovered in STL for which you speak is Celebrex, you are incorrect. Celecoxib was first synthesized in a small stinky chem lab in Skokie IL, at that time SEARLE. A bronze plaque was placed on the door of the lab indicating the same.

"At least a profitable drug came out of STL in the past 15 years."

PSTL = Pharmaceutical Sciences Team Leader

STL = Paranoid?

Yeah but they did eventually get into kinase inhibitors. They were always real good at playing follow the leader. Who was in charge of Oncology in 95? MM? I could see him saying something like that. He was not very good at seeing the truth. The only thing that tool cared about was making himself look good to the big shots.

Anytime I hear (valid) complaints about PFE Groton leadership, it takes me back to 1995 to a discussion with the biology director for Oncology about initiating a program on protein kinase inhibitors (similar to what was being done in Immunology on lck and JAK3). His answer: "We only do cytotoxics, end of discussion." Tells you everything you ever wanted to know about the scientific vision of Groton's management, doesn't it?

"You'd do exactly the same if you could."

Yes, I probably would because there would be nothing to stop me, just like there was nothing to stop them.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Sales from STL drug over 1.5 billion in 2012

Quote: "I have nothing against the people who survive at Groton. What I really want though is to see people like Steere, McKinnell, and Kindler die slow painful deaths for what did to so many of us."

Come on now - Steere, McKinnell and even Kindler are American heroes! They got rich by screwing everyone else around them - that's what the USA is all about. They may have been short on talent but they were so long on image they could skim off millions from Pfizer before they were shown the door. You'd do exactly the same if you could.

No, it didn't. Imbecile.

At least a profitable drug came out of STL in the past 15 years.

Sack the D-PSTLs. Overpaid, under-worked and living on past glories. You know who they are.

Three years ago I was in a wave in STL. Did not think Groton would last this long. Congrats to all. Good decision

oh, they will. But so will you.

I have nothing against the people who survive at Groton. What I really want though is to see people like Steere, McKinnell, and Kindler die slow painful deaths for what did to so many of us.

Why all the hate for Groton? Good for the people still left. Be productive and move this company forward. Was ATS 3 years ago this month, but that does not mean I want this place to fail.

Quote "Pfizer Groton has survived the snowstorm of 2013 intact."

But it won't survive itself. Death is imminent you Pfools! Groton is less than half the site it was. It won't be there 5 years from now. It will be a Mohegan Sun annex! Complete with boat docks! All you "scientists" can work as dealers at the "new" casino! And to make the site even more historical and attractive, you can have a clown with HUGE CLOWN SHOES walking around greeting everyone! "Drinks are served over there". The atrium would make for a lively bustling area of activity while the labs would make nice private poker rooms.

Bet I'll see you there!

Pfizer Groton has survived the snowstorm of 2013 intact.

That is so true. I was ATS'ed over 2 years ago. Not good enough for all the superior talent in Groton.

You guys are a bunch of fucking clowns. Stop stealing from pfizer, shorten your exercise routines, smoke breaks, and lunch time during work hours and get your work done! That is what you're getting paid for! He ce the reason why Pfizer is loosing money, then you sit here and blame it on someone else!

And we have a survey to prove we're all happy! Now be a good chap and pass the zoloft

PFE will be stronger than ever in 2013. Approvals are at an all time high. All the worthless employees have been ATSed and only the best and brightest minds remain. Productivity is at an all time high

Any guesses on who is the most creative and competent manager in Groton Today?

Pfizer Groton looks pretty much the same as in Jan 2012. Hopefully it will look the same in 2014

Come on guys get real. Pfizers at it again - sell off units to raise some cash, buyfdg another big pharma in trouble, asset strip your lives away. It the Pfizer buisness model. Makes the bankers very rich. Social Network

The budget year will be decided. How groton will fare is anyones guess.

the claim about the negative impact of HTS is not so far fetched. The quantity-over-quality approach meant that it was relatively easy to get promoted and Sandwich in the late 1990s onward had an astonishing number of highly questionable individuals working their way up to positions of influence, promoted not because of scientific or managerial ability but beccause they could claim to have met certain targets (i.e. compounds screened, CANs reached etc). Four of the main beneficieries from these false measures of productivity in Sandwich were Rolph, MacKay, MacKenzie and Merson (the first 3 are depressing - the last one just makes me laugh). It is no surprise to me that the company declined with such talent at the helm. Given that every other company copied our mistakes (i.e. screen, screen, screen), it is safe to assume that the consequences for them would be the same i.e. same type of twat would be promoted to positions of influence. So what the whole industry ended up with was a layer of Directors and VPs of such monumental scientific and technical incompetance that the fate was sealed, None of them actually brought anything to market and neither could they spot a drug in a pharmacy. So the, quality-last approach produced the idiots that are now in the positions of power and influence in which their shortcomings can do the most damage, that damage being a dry pipeline. In terms of the OPs question, that signals only one possible fate for Groton - a slow run down followed by certain closure by, i would guess, 2015.

Ha ha!! Talk about a cop out! So what is the explanation for the high affinity modulators which were active in vivo that failed to advance. Blame either goes up or down. Target selection/validation or clinical design? Both?

The Timwit is a genius. You quit picking on him!

HTS is not the problem, the problem was hiring TimWit to run research in Groton, he not only killed CVMD but ruined Neuroscience to boot. That guy is the biggest assclown in the world.

dont think anyone was blaming the decline on HTS per se. In fact it has been made clear in several posts that that was not the case. i think the point being made is that the attitude behind HTS was a major factor in the decline. The inconvenient truth is that our industry is declining because we have no pipeline, not because there is no market. We have no pipeline primarily because HTS did not produce quality candidates because the screens which were run, in order for them to be completed to politically acceptable timetables, were in formats that were far removed from true physiology and were never going to be predictive of in vivo behaviour (the only thing that counts). It is not enough to say 'they were just screens' or 'they were just tools'. Thats a cop out. I was present in too many project meetings to count where the same points were repeated over-and-over again; 'Why are these supposedly high affinity inhibitors/ligands not active in vivo?'. HTSrs were always quick to blame DMPK or anything else. In 20 years i never heard one screener turn around and suggest that their assay may be sub-optimal or compromised - they sat there thinking they had done their job because the compound file had been screened on time. No mention of the use of non-endogenous substrates, or non-physiological assay conditions, or highly questionable end-points (HTRF and FLIPR being the funniest). No one peeped up about receptor overexpression or forcible coupling. And never did anyone mention the questionable data analysis where inhibition curves were routinely force-fitted to Hill slopes of Unity simply to get the data out in time. No, HTS was not the sole reason for the industry decline, but when such a compromised system was perceived as the only route to a pipeline, a pipeline that no pharma now posesses, then dont tell me it wasn't a, possibly the, major factor.

HTS is a tool, not more - an overhyped tool, a tool that, like pretty much everything else in science, went through a hype-bust-use cycle.

Blaming the decline of the industry on HTS is just foolish. As for PFE HTS – a joke indeed.

"Drug safety and pdm merger will save some dollars."

What's the plan with this? Will TA lead it or someone else?

"What is pdm? Process Development and Manufacturing?"

Pretty Dumb Managers. And "pretty" doesn't imply good looks either, but rather more along the lines of "very."

cant pin the whole mess on hts. More to do with the phiosophy and motivation behind it. That "numbers" approach you mentioned became the norm in every department. Yes, the idiots did want to see graphs that go up. And when that spreads to the clinic youve got real problems. If it wasnt for 'creative' statisticians we would never have got anything to the market. HTS may have started the decline, but the final nail in Pharmas coffin came when the rest of the departments joined in in the collective dishonesty. The jerks that were responsible may now be getting tossed out - but their legacy remains well intrenched. No, its not safe to stay. This industry is in palliative care - line your pockets and get out.

but that was the issue. The individuals behind HTS were behind it for one reason only. They were not scientists. They were ambitious and saw a way to progress their career. The idiots at the top (Steere and co) look for graphs that go up. The higher the number the better, right? And yes, all the drug companies copied Pfizer. HTS conferences were a laugh. Full of screening managers and individuals that called themselves assay developers (even though all they did was bring in commercial SPA and HTRF kits from amersham and the likes - Chris Williams for christ sake....) all strutting around claiming that their amps went up to 11. Pointless posters of shite data from FLIPR with Galpha16 coupled overexpressed receptors in rodent ovary cell lines - highly representitive of human pathology? - methinks not. 20 years of that twatology and what do we have to show for it. An ageing population with poorly controlled diseases - disorders still being treated with allopurinol, phenytoin, methotrexate, aspirin, warfarin - drugs at least 50 years old. Everyone involved in HTS should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves; not just because of the suffering that continues due to their self-obsessed intellectual impotence, but because their malignant 'more is better' philosophy bastardized the integrity of the industry (yes, it once had integrity) and resulted in the hundreds of thousands of sackings over the past 15 years. But there is light at the end of the tunnel - pharma is getting wise to the legion of imbeciles who based their career on the 'numbers' approach. We (novartis) finally flushed out of one of the original Pfizer HTS idiots. DB (Father Dougall). His stupidity ultimately destroyed pfizer but we caught it just in time. Zaragon Life Sciences my arse - sitting lonely in a room surfing the web more like. And Over-The-Hill (Father Ted) soon to follow. Perhaps its worth staying in this industry afterall.

I could never understand the rationale behind HTS where instead of reacting A with B and testing the purified product C you reacted A with B, B1, B2,.......Bx and tested the mixture C, C1 C2.....Cx.
If the mixture had some activity you still had to find the active component.
I thought at the time I was just thick but now it seems it was a case of the Emperor's clothes.
Or have I still got it wrong????

What is pdm? Process Development and Manufacturing?

please, dont be so obsessed with clown shoes. He wasn't the primary tumor. That originated in Sandwich and Groton HTS. That is what started the whole sorry industry decline. The twats who sold the idea that screening more, faster, meant more marketed medicines. Steere and co, all thick as shit, bought the idea, and knew that they could sell it to, and I quote, "the superficial market intellects". And every other company copied our mistakes. And so started a 20 year period of imbeciles being promoted to positions of influence based on false measures of productivity. Rolph, MacKenzie, clown shoes and co are mearly the repugnant offspring of that period of malignant stupidity. I suspect you hate them. But do you hate them as much as you hate yourself given that you made no attempt to stop them. Oh, that mortgage, oh that healthcare coverage. Let's not rock the boat until its sinking.