I was downsized in 1992 -- right after Miles (Bayer) took over.
LHR

Oui.

He was in charge prior to the sale to Revlon. That was long before the French took over under Cooper. The latter was a very interesting group ranging from smart, shrewd individuals who instinctively understood DX and the shoot-from-the-hip, 'all you gotta do is' who pushed to get the Japanese systems out before they were really ready. Of course, that was done to attract Bayer who didn't have a clue about how to do a decent due diligence. Served them right. They had to clean up that mess, but refused to invest more and, that's what led to the huge decline in clinical chemistry market share. One system was supposed to replace SMAC which was really on its last legs; one was to take over for the aging RA systems that had several unfixed method problems and the failed Chem 1. Neither Japanese systems made it either.

If you were just standing on the outside during all of those years, it would have made a great sitcom. If you were on the inside and remembered all of the years of success, it was incredibly demoralizing. I can imagine that the Fascists in Italy felt pretty much the same way when they saw the people string Il Duce up by his feet.

GC ? Did he have a French accent ?

Big problem with that was they tried to do it in Middletown, the plant that GC set up so the manager could look after his daughter in college in Va. The great distance from Tarrytown and remoteness of the site made transferring new technology extremely difficult. Years later, when it came to transferring other technology for Immuno 1, it took years and years to get it all right. It was always hard for Middletown to attract high level technical talent due its location. Nonetheless, the Middletown people were always hard workers who tried to learn new things that were more than just mixing chemicals and filling bottles. But there was always a it came to communication between TTN and MTN, mostly due to poor management that prevented each 'side' from seeing things from the others' perspective.

You are definitely correct in the timing of the shut down of STAC. And your reason for the shutdown sounds rational. Actually they were in the process of working on the high volume filling of the reagent/sample packages. ( I forgot what they wee called ... getting old I guess.)

LHR

As I understand things, STAC was killed as a lead up to the original sale of Technicon to Revlon. Taking STAC off the table somehow made the books look better. I have a vague recollection of an attempt to bring STAC back in the form of a proposed system called RAZ in the late 80s, but that proposed project was never approved. Instead, all resources were directed towards trying to extend the Chem 1 technology to the Advia IMS system which never made it.

Technicon;

Midget ?

Or ATTAM; bubble tech with some pumps that would shut down.

And then there was STAC with freeze dried reagents. Intel 8008 processor.

STAC actually got a few in the field before it was taken off the market. I think Technicon bought purchased them back from the customers.

SMA II did very well -- oh, I'm giving away my age ...

LHR

Has any site been scheduled for a mandatory Town Hall yet?

Then we remember the same things. RA was a smaller system with which DS was only loosely associated even though he always claims (sole) credit for it. RA addressed a completely different market segment than SMAC. RA maxed out at around 240 test/hr; SMAC reached up close to 10,000 tests per hour. The most amazing thing about RA was that the basic product was completed in around 15 months. The system was fairly simple, very reliable, and allowed labs to do specific tests on each sample rather than running large panels. The first few years they had several locations building systems in 3 shifts because they couldn't keep up with demand. It was particularly popular in Europe where customers were able to develop their own methods for esoteric analytes or apply third party reagents. And it took alot of courage for Technicon management to get away from the 'bubble' which had been the source of their immense success. Had they follow up on RA with higher speeds, muliple modules, better reagent packaging, and larger test menu, Technicon would have been much more competitive with the Hitachi, Beckman, and Dimensions systems. But that is ancient history; we know how it all turned out in the end.

"Chem 1 maxed out at around 500 at most. It was plagued with reliability problems, had a limited menu of less than 40 methods, could not use other reagents and never met the promise or excitement that accompanied its introduction. "

Introduced in Paris

The design was such that one "had" to purchase reagents from Technicon -- as Technicon patented the reagent pack. That was the intent from the start, although they never stated such... Some European countries would not allow their hospitals to purchase
Chem I for that reason I believe.

I guess SMAC II was the really last successful LARGE system that came out of Tarrytown. DS was not in a real position of authority on that one. he was an Engineer or Sr. Engineer at that time I think.

LHR

On the long term wish list.

Are these Vista projects still on?

DV Anti-HBs
DV Anti-HBc
DV Anti-HBc IgM
DV Anti-HAV
DV Anti-HAV IgM

Seems like nothing changes.

RA was very successful. At one point there were around 5000 systems running in the field. It was simple, relatively user friendly for its time, allowed for customers to use their own reagents to to use reagents from others for methods not supplied by Technicon. There were close to 100 methods running on RA systems.

Chem 1 maxed out at around 500 at most. It was plagued with reliability problems, had a limited menu of less than 40 methods, could not use other reagents and never met the promise or excitement that accompanied its introduction.

RA was already 8 years old and Bayer did nothing to support it. They were focused on the new systems by then and when those required significant post-launch work, Bayer lost interest in those as well. When Bayer bought Technicon they had around a 30 % market share in clinical chemistry; when they sold it they had driven it down to around 5%. From the perspective of German management who seemed to be standing on their heads most of the time, this must have looked like progress.

Well I must say, it looks like some of the people from the Tarrytown facility hated DS about as much as our guy (gal?) hates the people he works with at the LA site. I guess we are all just one big happy family.

'Chem 1. The system that made HL throw fits and chew on the carpet. Technicon (Revlon) never made their money back on Chem 1. The last really successful system that came out of Tarrytown was RA-1000.'

Neither of those systems could be termed successful, even with bayer's low standards. When siemens bought bayer they had about 4% market share in chemistry.
Quite the success.

Chem 1. The system that made HL throw fits and chew on the carpet. Technicon (Revlon) never made their money back on Chem 1. The last really successful system that came out of Tarrytown was RA-1000. And in his typical sinister manner, DS managed to claim credit for that one too even though he had little to do with it. DS was a discipline manager for much of Chem 1 and contributed very little to help that project other than to ruin a few careers along the way. In reality, it is almost impossible to think of any positive contribution that DS made over his 30+ reign of terror.

Last great product was the Chem I. Pushed through by D.S. By the way, I have a bridge I would like to sell you.

LHR

Developing the playbook has shown to be explosively successful.

Offering a bigger package for volunteers would encourage the best and brightest to leave and mean that they would retain an higher percentage of poor performers. Given that most of the people who made the DX components great companies at one point in their history, Siemens call ill afford to lose the few talented poeple who still remain. But since Siemens has shown an almost unique ability to NOT recognize talent in DX or to just believe that every employee is completely expendable and easily replaced by just anyone, the only thing holding them back is that they simply can't afford to spend one more pfennig on layoffs than they have to. They really seem to have the anti-Midas touch: everything they touch in DX seems to turn to dirt and their arrogance keeps them from seeing that they, management, are the problem.

I defy anyone to show a management decision or plan that has been successful in the past five years.

Siemens DX has the same problem now. People (office, bench-techs and Phd's)just want to get out as quickly as possible.
People aren't stupid. They can smell a sinking ship.
If Siemens just wants to trim the ranks quickly and amicably all they need to do is make a better package.
Easiest way to do that is simply remove the 26-week cap.
Sadly it won't solve their problem of excess platforms they can't give away. So they'll need to either sell off or just shutdown certain platforms now and bite the loss.

I suspect the pencil pushers in the offices downstairs tend to last the longest. Engineers, by their nature tend to move around a lot, or, are moved around a lot. Chemist wee pretty stable, if you had a Masters/Phd. Quite a turnover of Mechanical Engineers in R&D under J.H. E.E. did not fair much better in the 80's, 90,s.

LHR

I believe that JL from scientific services who was there for around 50 years recently retired. There are still a handful of pre-Bayer or even pre-Cooper years people in Tarrytown, but not many.

Cooper continued the Revlon store, but Bayer eventually replaced it with their own store. It was quite appropriate. Things in Tarrytown were alot sweeter smelling before Bayer (even during the wild Cooper years), and Bayer found much better ways to give their employees headaches and upset stomachs.

The Bayer store --- ha ha , should have been there when Revlon owned Technicon. Lots of happy women working at Tarrytown then. I wonder if any of the crew from the 80's-90's are still there?

I guess the devil; D.S. is no longer there -- medical reasons. Is he still alive ? He definitely ruined a lot of careers there.

LHR

Not a stretch when you've been to the old DPC facility in LA.

Calling Tarrytown a beautiful facility is quite a stretch.
They do, however, have a good cafeteria, and the bayer store seemed to have good prices. Is it still open?

How long have you been at Tarrytown? There were many nervous times during the multiple layoffs during the Bayer reign. People walked around like zombies for weeks before some of the bigger layoffs. There was near mass hysteria at the end of the Cooper era too when rumour had it that Cooper would not be able to meet payroll after July 1 1989 and that the place would be shut down on that date. They completed the sale to Bayer in very late June 1989. Is it really that much worse now?

Layoffs won't be nearly enough to cover the financial loss of what they had "expected" to be making 6years into the game.
That leaves them 2 options. Either they sell off part of their Healthcare franchise or just shutdown certain platforms and take the loss before things get worse...and they will.
I've never seen so many nervous people running around the halls of Tarrytown before.
It's a shame cause it's a beautiful facility. Marketing is at a loss of ideas. AACC didn't help the situation either.
It appears another layoff (1400) is inevitable but it won't solve the problem.

Take the payoff, there are jobs out there.
Good jobs working for good organizations that will value you and your contributions.
After many years of the siemens crap, it is like a breath of fresh air.

True...and I've been to all of them.
But what we do know is this: "The plan for the healthcare unit foresees 1400 job cuts by 2013". End Quote
Now that's a lot of people especially if most will be US based...which we don't know yet.
I'm quite sure this topic will come up at everyones next Town Hall by the people attending. More interesting will be how Management answers it.
Few, if any, took last layoffs early retirement option. Lets see if they sweeten the pot this time around (seriously doubt it.)
Healthcare has less than four months to accomplish this task.

It is hard to believe that anyone expects any real news to come out of the next round of Town Hall meetings. There are probably still a few people who attend these meetings who are still 'true believers'. Most of the others go either because attendance is expected (or mandatory), but expect to hear nothing but calming messages from management and whatever spin is necessary to cover up the real status of DX and the behind the scenes plans. It just makes me wonder why no one has thought to organize a boycott of these charades. The message would be alot greater than the outcome of any attitude survey. The excuse for absence is that, knowing the difficulties the company faces, I thought it was more important to be working than to be taking time off. I can always ask those who attended if anything important was communicated.

Something else to think about. If you ran your own company and, for whatever reason, felt it was necessary to lay a group of people off, how much advance notice would you give them? Remember that as owner of the business, you are likely to put the viability of your business first. Don't be too harsh on Siemens for not laying out every detail of their layoff plans. Siemens has given people many more other things to criticize.

Does anyone know which days the annual management conference will take place in October?
I'm thinking memo's will come out shortly after.

It was leaked at my site the internal survey was so bad that all Department Heads had a emergency meeting with the Site Head. Although supposedly anonymous, the surveys can be broken down by Site and Department. (...of couse they didn't tell anyone that).
Well, it's bout time Siemens Management gets told the truth and faces the consequences.
I'm fully expecting a very bumpy Holiday Season as DX is finally trimmed down in the US.

It would be more humain to let all know before the Holiday Season, but then again we are talking about Siemens.

It has come to my attention Town Halls are being scheduled in the near future. One major topic are the results from the Siemens internal survey which didn't go so well for Siemens (but expect a "spin" from MR on this).
Supposedly the 1400 layoffs are to be done by end of December. Still no word on that from Senior Management.
But I'm quite sure it will be brought up at every Sites Town Hall.
Should make for an interesting Holiday Season.

You are right about one thing; being called an "uber liberal" is now considered "name calling with personal attacks".

That's because nobody wants to be labled as such, as it is considered to be a derogatory term.

Since the name calling and labels continue, there is no point in responding to someone who just makes assertions whether the agree wtih facts or not. I'm sure this decision will please all here, but one. I will only respond to issues, not personal attacks.

"I don't know about you, but I blame both parties and the American people in general for their greed ..."

This guy gets called out about a very partisan take on who damaged the economy & the mortgage mess and now all of a sudden he blames both parties equally. This is just the kind of rationalizing, party politics bias that infuriates those of us who see politics objectively. I am the one who introduced equal molar blame for both parties because I was sick of hearing the unbridled bias being posted here......bias very heavily against the Republicans w/ nonsensical arguments about how they alone brought it on. The entire reason for my angry posts was because of your uber-liberal rantings! So don't go "Mr. Nice and Fair gentleman" on us all here, have the guts to stick to your guns. We KNOW YOU are not sincere about blaming both sides equally so show some balls and conviction. I feel like I'm being pulled around and around in an endless circle here......any of the rest of you guys tired of this?

On the relavent subject of Siemens, I read that Siemens plans are for huge expansions for operations in Asia in their core businesses. Evidently they still see enormous opportunities in that area. So my question is, will they do the same kind of push for Diagnostics in the Asian arena? Something tells me no, which can only mean if this is true, that Siemens may eventually just bail on Diagnostics.

That's a start. How about zero bonuses for upper management when DX as a whole fails to meet its goals. Bonuses should still be available to individuals who do exceed goals.

Jay Leno just took 50% pay cut to stop more layoff by NBC from his show. Can we suggest in next townhall that all Directors and above till MR take 5% cut to save some dx emloyees. If they cant grow this company, this is the least they can do.

This is the best thing I have heard on this site in years! It should be mandatory!

Can we start a new thread for those who want to talk politics? This is suppose to be about Siemens layoffs. Isn't there a moderator on this site?

----

I agree - politics and religon discussions belong in another forum!

Good luck with THAT thought!

Jay Leno just took 50% pay cut to stop more layoff by NBC from his show. Can we suggest in next townhall that all Directors and above till MR take 5% cut to save some dx emloyees. If they cant grow this company, this is the least they can do.

Can we start a new thread for those who want to talk politics? This is suppose to be about Siemens layoffs. Isn't there a moderator on this site?

"Get rid of all labor unions ". No, just the public service labor unions. FDR at least foresaw the problems with public employee being allowed to unionize. ( JFK changed the law to allow them to unionize) Both workers and management are on the same side of the table. And screw the Taxpayer. How about the Yonkers fireman who retired at 45 and started collecting retirement at 45 to the tune of $100k/year. No wonder towns and cities are going broke.

The last post by that hopelessly blind liberal, is exactly what amazes us in the middle. Believe me I was not a Republican my whole life but the nonsense coming from the left over the last 12 years or so has made me think I have to make a sharp right turn very soon before I go insane. I prick a little wound you might call "analytical thinking", and its gets to him so bad he goes boonkers. YOU my son were the idiot that blamed the whole banking/housing bubble on the Bush administration, while leaving no thought or room for any other cause for it. I simply laid out a logical reasoning behind the fact that thinking like you did made no sense, because it took decades to pop. So you come back w/ a zillion sound bites that you heard from Rosie, Letterman, the Baldwin brothers, Shawn P., etc., etc. Please spare me the noise.

Yes, Republicans have been terrible at many, many things concerning their policies and leadership, but the Democrats are blameless? This is the kind of youth that America is turning out lately and God save us because the better educated and non-sound-bite bitten Chinese, Indian, Korean, you name it developing country kids are going to eat us alive. The ones that end up here are the only young ones that will have any sense in this country at the rate we are tuning out these troglodites.

"Another 4years with Obama will set us back several more trillion."

OMG, that would be terrible. Never mind the math. Obama wants to eliminate the Bush tax cuts for the rich would would save trilions. Romney, not only wants to keep the Bush tax cuts, but he wants to cut taxes for the rich even more and talks vaguely about eliminating some tax preferences to balance things out. Maybe the deduction for home mortgages which would affect the rich alot less than the poor in terms of their percentage income or wealth. No one who has looked at the Romney proposal can even score it because it is so vague (remember the mantra ... trust us, we are successful, we made lots of money, we know what is best for the rest of you). So you want me to believe that a businessman can cut revenue, cut some spending, and this will balance the budget? You want me to believe that a president who wants to raise revenue from the few Americans who have benefitted the most will make the deficit worse? Siemens is a good example of the first proposal. They managed to cut revenues simply by making products that customers don't want. They have cut expenses by laying off more workers. Now I'm waiting for all the Republicans here to tell me how much more healthy Siemens is now than they were four years ago. Where did you people learn your math anyway? And who came up with the idea that the government is a business? What is there about running a business that makes one an expert on the economy which is not just a business? What about running an investment company for rich people to use in order to lower their taxes under current tax system rules makes someone qualified to run a country for the benefit of all citizens? What about running a business makes you qualified in foreign affairs? What's the plan? Strip America down to the bare bones .... eliminate all waste and fat (for the masses only ... we can't give up on those three martini lunches and fancy parties for the elite), and then build it back up again from the rubble they leave behind? And most of all, never communicate your detailed plans to anyone because you're afraidn they might see what your real goals are.... to make more money for yourself and your colleagues.

Wnat to know why Romney won't release his tax returns? It's not because he did anything illegal just as Bain did nothing illegal. The tax returns are being kept secret because showing them would highlight, in the most graphic ways possible, how unfair the US tax code is and how many different ways the rich are given to shield themselves from paying taxes on their wealth. Such revelations would be cause for a REAL tea party to form in order to reform and simplify our tax code. Remember the Republican tax simplification under Reagan? Alot of it centered on shrinking the number of tax brackets so one could figure out how much they owed more easily. Problem was that your tax due comes from a table or from a simple calculation. But eliminating many of the upper tax brackets meant no distinctions for top tax brackets for the very rich. Thus, under the old system someone making a million dollars would have an higher marginal tax rate than someone earning half a million. Under the new, 'simplified' system, they both pay the same marginal rate. You see how good they were at propaganda back then? Massive tax cuts for the very rich disguised as tax simplification.

Want real tax simplification? How about a one page form for EVERYONE?

How much money did you make last year? (Wages, salaries, tips, rents, royalties, capital gains, dividends, and every other penny that came you way). That's line 1.

Line 2: Exemptions for you, your spouse or partner, and possibly your children (why should everyone else support the children that you chose to have anyway?)

Line 3: Subtract line 2 from line 1.

Line 4: Enter tax due from the tax tables.

That's all folks.

Yes, there would be consequences. Housing prices would have to adjust to reflect the new economics of home ownerhsip, but that is a temporarty transition. Companies that make tax software, like Intuit, would have to find new products to make. But the worst consequence would be trying to figure out what to do with all of those accountants that people like to visit almost as much as they like to visit a dentist for an impacted wisdom tooth.

The previous post is the best example why Obama will lose.
Lame economy, lame convention, lame speech.
Since he's been in office we went from bad to extremely worse.
Can't blame that on Bush.

Siemens bashing?
They do that quite well all by themselves.

Yes, yes. It's all the Democrats' fault. What a crock. BOTH parties have ressponsibility. The the REAL responsibility rests with the people who vote our politicians into office, Republicans and Democrats. It surely wasn't the Democrats who added trillions to the deficit with two unfunded wars (I'm not discussing whether the wars were right or wrong, just whether they were or were not paid for), a multi-trillion dollar drug benefit program that was unpaid for (a cynic would argue that this program was more designed to bankrupt Medicare than to help people), and two huge tax cuts, mostly for the rich. If you believe that Republicans are all good and Democrats are all bad, I suggest that you look at the history of the stcok market (S&P 500) since 1929 and see how it performed under Republican and Democratic presidents. Yes, you, like I was, will be surprised to find out that the gut reaction that stocks should do better under business-friendly Republicans, is wrong. Stocks have hisotricallly done better under Democratic administrations. You have great arguments based on fear and that biggest of all scare tactics: socialism. You have been using that boogeyman since the 1920s and, while you have scared millions with your propaganda, there is little real evidence that these fears are justified. Republicans keep saying they want to take the country back. How far back, you ask? Let's see. Get rid of Medicare. That would be 1965. Get rid of social security as was attempted under the second Bush adminstration until they realized how unpopular that would be. That would take us back to around 1935 or so. Loosen child labor laws (as was done recently in Maine by state Republicans). How far back is that? 1920s? earlier? Get rid of the EPA. 1970 or so. Get rid of the Department of Education. Get rid of all labor unions (back to the 1930s). Eliminate all social programs. Repeal Obamacare in its entirety and replace it with ????? (oh, that would be nothing or vouchers .... like telling your teenager ... hey, here's a buck, go out and have yourself a ball tonight). Russia is our number one enemy today (what is today? 1955?). Get rid of all these incovenient business regulations that prevent businesss from ripping people off, polluting the environment, conspiring to fix prices, etc. After all, market forces will take care of all of these problems. When was the Sherman anti-trust Law? 1890? Some Republicans want the repeals of parts, if not all, of the Civil Rights legislation from the 1960s (Rand Paul, for instance). Republicans who hold power today in state governments have been passing laws left and right to restrict the ability to vote despite virtually no real evidence of voter fraud. Are the restrictions even handed or politically motivated? The answer isn't even close. It is clearly targeted against, poor people, old people, and people of color. And this, from the party of Lincoln. What a disgrace. How far are we going back now? 1860s? Next thing you know they will be explaining why slavery wasn't really all that bad and it's evil nature is highly distorted by modern liberal socialists who control all of our history books.

But wait a second... they don't want to shut everything down. They actually want to spend billions of dollars on military equipment that the generals have yet to even request. Maybe even another Reagen Star Wars program (you can also check to see how much that fiasco added to the national debt .. and, please remind em, what was the benefit of that program?).

Would it be that much of a reach to say that the Republican agenda is back to the caveman? Their philosophy and agenda are all about 'real liberty and freedom'. Every man, woman, and child for him or herself. I'm not sure where you got your education, but I learned that goal is called anarchy. Republicans simply can't understnd or easily forget why most of the laws they want to repeal were put there in the first place. Virtually of the laws and regulations they don't like were put in place as a result of excesses and abuses by a ruling class of wealthy and powerful individuals in America. In the long run, Americans hate classes and, in particular, have an almost paranoid fear of the concentration of power. Yet Republicans maintain an attitude of superiority. They believe that their financial success (whether earned honestly, acquired by inheritance, or earned though the work and sweat of others) somehow ENTITLES them to rule because somehow they are better than the rest of us.

So when you go to the polls this November ask yourself what decade or century would you like the Republican party to take us to in their reactionary time machine. Ask yourself what the Republicans have done to improve the lives of people in this country in the past century. Then you can remember the following slogans:

Democrats: Cleaning up Republican messes since 1933

Voting is like driving a car: Choose (D) to go forward; Choose (R) to go backwards)

Don't want a government? Move to Somalia

The Republican Party: Our bridge to the 11th Century

Tea: The new American Kool Aid

And my favorite: Democrats are sexy: Who ever heard of getting a piece of elephant?

_________________

And now back to our regularly scheduled program: The Siemens Bashing Show

I think you guys/gals are in the wrong thread.
Another 4years with Obama will set us back several more trillion.
Romney might not be the best solution but he can't do any worse and understands the business environment while Obama does not.
Need proof...check out todays jobs report. Enough said.

We are still waiting to get the official memo regarding the layoffs and the schedule/location for them.
Looks like they're waiting till Siemens Management meetings are over this month.
People at Tarrytown are quite nervous since additional rumors of relocating certain departments is making the rounds.